I’ll post my real thoughts on the NL Central race over the All-Star break, but I just couldn’t resist this tasty gem. How many stupid comments will be made by a full time baseball journalist? Let’s see.
(I know this is very FJM, but it’s the division I love, and I can’t stand to see it bastardized)
The Brewers didn’t just make the most important pre-deadline trade of 2008. They made the first pre-deadline trade of 2008. And because they struck so fast, Sabathia figures to sneak in two starts for the Brewers before the All-Star break — and four before the deadline hits. So as rentals go, an elite pitcher who makes 14 starts is likely to make a far bigger impact than a pitcher who makes 10. [more CC stuff]
Let’s assume C.C. Sabathia wins ten of his fourteen starts, and let’s further assume that the Brewer starter he’ll replace will win seven of those fourteen. That’s three games – probably not enough to ensure that they’ll overtake the Cubs or even hold off the Cardinals. You should include something else in your “case for Milwaukee”.
The Cubs were the best team in the National League before this deal. And it won’t be easy for a man who only goes out there every fifth day to change that. The Cubs are a deeper, more efficient and more consistent offensive team than Milwaukee, for one thing. They’ve scored nearly 70 more runs (475-406). They’ve outhit the Brewers by nearly 30 points (.283-.255) and have a much better on-base percentage (.359-.324). And the Cubs still have the better bullpen (3.65 ERA to Milwaukee’s 4.07).
Absolutely correct, but you should mention the other team in the NL Central that is three and a half games behind Chicago. Defeating Milwaukee is a necessary, but not sufficient condition of winning the Central.
The Cardinals have been defying the numbers and the experts all season. So it would be crazy to count them out. You wouldn’t think this would be possible if you looked over the names in their lineup, but they’ve been a better offensive team than the Brewers in just about every category except home runs. The Cardinals also have committed the fewest errors in the league (46 — or 10 fewer than either the Cubs or Brewers). And they figure to get both Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright back in the second half. So they won’t be conceding anytime soon.
The reason for the Cardinal success on offense is their phenomenal walk rate, which has led to one of the NL’s best OBPs (behind only Chicago, of course). Rick Ankiel has been a better offensive player than Ryan Braun this year, and the reason is that Braun only walks once a week despite his phenomenal power. Corey Hart is another example of this. Milwaukee would be the best offensive team in the league if they would learn plate discipline. But, like, none of that would matter in a baseball chat. So the Cards can walk, and they’ll be getting a pitcher as good as Sabathia back when Wainwright returns. That’s the case for St. Louis, although I admit that it probably is a thin one.
I agree with you that no one would want to play the Brewers in October — but not because of their offense. Talked to several scouts about this in the last 24 hours, and their feeling is that this lineup is still one that can be pitched to. It’s still too homer-dependent and too streaky. So to assume it’s going to go on some kind of three-month tear now just isn’t a safe assumption — unless CC hits cleanup. And I know he’d be willing!
No lineup is too “homer-dependent”. Many lineups are too dependent on hitting four of them to score five runs – such as a team that hits for ridiculous power and never walks. Milwaukee is hitting a homer and a half a game – in most situations, that would be good for almost three runs. When your OBP isn’t up to what it should be, it’s not going to help you as much. Also, some support for “too streaky” would be nice.
Ben Sheets is a big part of this in various ways. But one of the biggest is one you touched on — i.e., health. One scout I talked to mentioned how badly the Brewers played last year after he went down. And given his health history, you wouldn’t want to bet the lake house that he won’t miss any turns the rest of this season. With Sabathia in the co-ace penthouse, there’s no reason now for the ship to sink if Sheets gets hurt.
A Ben Sheets injury still costs whatever it would have before. The only difference is that they now have somebody else to win some games as well. So they’d still probably lose a game or two with somebody other than Sheets, they just upgraded somewhere else. Since we can all probably agree that they’re not going to win the wild card or the division by eight games, those couple games still matter and still reduce their chances. They just reduce them from a higher baseline, and directly contradict Stark’s argument from later in the chat, in which he says that Sabathia makes them a contender instead of an also-ran. If you add Sabathia to an also-ran and deduct Sheets, don’t you get an also-ran? Particularly when Sheets has been a better pitcher than Sabathia this year?
Mark (Milwaukee): Lets not forget about Manny Parra. He’ll be going for his 8th win in a row later this week and in my opinion is fantastic for a 3rd or 4th starter.
Jayson Stark: You’re right. If he’s the No. 3 starter, at this point you’d take him, Sabathia and Sheets over Carlos Zambrano, Ryan Dempster and Ted Lilly. As someone said to me today, “this is going to force the Cubs to go get somebody.” And they’re looking for a 1-2 as we speak.
And Marshall and Gallagher are much better than whatever slop the Brewers toss out in the 4-5 slots, which pitch exactly as often as the top three. Maybe this matters less in October, but we’re not talking about October, we’re talking about getting to October. Big difference.
An every-day player always has more impact than a starting pitcher. And you’re seeing now how much the Cubs miss Soriano. They’re 32-17 when he starts, only two over .500 (21-19) when he doesn’t.
That’s not enough of a sample size to say that, particularly when the Cubs have faced tougher opposition over the forty games without Soriano. Most importantly, Soriano isn’t really that good an offensive player. I mean, he’s good, but hardly irreplaceable, and Jim Edmonds has been significantly better than Soriano in his absence. Wouldn’t hold up over a whole season, probably, but Soriano wouldn’t have produced any more, probably would have produced less, and the Cubs wouldn’t win any additional games.
[The Cardinals] have to keep pace, in my mind. They haven’t been closer to the Cubs than 2 1/2 games in over a month. And the Brewers have made up six games on them in the standings since late May WITHOUT Sabathia. So they might need 20 starts from those two to hang in there, which is asking a lot.
Compare to:
Beware of snapshot glances. You saw the Brewers at their worst, when the Red Sox were playing their best ball of the season. The Brewers are 29-15 since they left Boston, and they’re playing much better baseball.
Cherry picking forty games is a snapshot glance. They’ve certainly been hot and everything, but I don’t think we should assume the Brewers are really going to win two in three the rest of the way. And why not? Oh, yeah: everything we saw in April and May is still true.
There’s no doubt the Brewers are now a team built for October. The problem is, they’re not going to be allowed to get a bye and go straight to October. They’re going to have to earn this in July, August and September. If they do, look out.
Compare to:
I agree with you that no one would want to play the Brewers in October — but not because of their offense. Talked to several scouts about this in the last 24 hours, and their feeling is that this lineup is still one that can be pitched to. It’s still too homer-dependent and too streaky. So to assume it’s going to go on some kind of three-month tear now just isn’t a safe assumption — unless CC hits cleanup. And I know he’d be willing!
So, the team is built for October, except for the lineup, and the bullpen, which you maligned a few posts back. So what you’re trying to say is that they’ve got three good starting pitchers. Also true of Chicago, you know, and this chat is about who will win the NL Central. Or is it?
I mean, let’s just pick one inane story and stick with it, OK? Promise?